Questions on Protestantism...

[Isamu]

sinong Protestant dito?...anong masasabi niyo sa paggamit o paghiram ng Roman Catholic church sa mga pagan symbols etc..may inattendan kasi akong liturgical formation at sabi nung speaker ang Catholic daw ay humiram sa mga pagan..di ko alam kung symbol, activity o anu..basta haha...e di ba ayaw ni Jesus ng mga pagan worship etc...?

Actually hindi humiram but more like came from paganism (if ever there's a term). If my memory serves me right Constantine was a pagan before he became a Catholic. Constantine was the person responsible kung bakit Catholic ang parang "dominant" (my opinion) religion all over the world. When Constantine was converted to ROMAN CATHOLIC, he issued the EDICT OF MILAN to proclaim that religious affiliations (Christianity) will not be persecuted anymore just like in the past but proclaimed that ROMAN CATHOLIC be the official religion of the whole roman empire.

FYI, Christmas is not really a Christian celebration but more like a pagan celebration. Jesus Christ was "never" born ON DECEMBER 25. Who knows when but "IT COULD or COULD NOT BE" December 25. Historically December is the month dedicated to their SUN GOD, which is their PRIME God SOL. That's why when Constantine was converted, they used some of the pagan celebrations or symbols to be used in Catholic religion. That's why CHRISTMAS for CHristians=Feast day of the SUN God for pagans.

yun na ang problema dito...nanggaling sa pagan at bibigyan nila ng kahulugan na mejo related kay Jesus Christ...para mapaniwala tayo, syempre hindi natin maitatanggi kasi nga may pagka maka-Diyos ang dating...ang tanong...gugustuhin ba to ni Lord na may bahid ng paganism ang mga relihiyon dedicated sa kanya? samantalang siya mismo ay ayaw ng mga pagan practices...gets? tapos sasabihin nila na kasi sa tradition ganyan ganyan....ok lang naman siguro na sumunod sa tradition pero kung may something na may masama hindi na dapat sundin....

well blame it on the ecumenical councils. They are the one who handpicked kung ano ang dapat gawin ng mga Catholics at kung ano ang ilalagay sa Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the only gospels. There's the gospel of Phillip, Judas, Mary Magdalene and the gnostic gospels.... but these gospels represent Jesus as only Human or as only God not both Human and Divine. That's why our Church Fathers (Ecumenical councils) picked the gospels that we know today.

If we look at it more closely, did Jesus really envisioned that humans should build a religion (Roman Catholic) with deacons, priest, bishops and a Pope? A religion with hierarchy and the Pope at the top of it?

Remember that kung sino ang makapangyarihan yun ang masusunod..... Do you think that if it weren't for Constantine or the Benedictine monks who protected our religion Catholic pa rin kaya ang dominant religion today?

Im disagree how do you say this? well blame it on the ecumenical councils. They are the one who handpicked kung ano ang dapat gawin ng mga Catholics at kung ano ang ilalagay sa Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the only gospels. There's the gospel of Phillip, Judas, Mary Magdalene and the gnostic gospels.... but these gospels represent Jesus as only Human or as only God not both Human and Divine. That's why our Church Fathers (Ecumenical councils) picked the gospels that we know today.
>>EH KAYA NAMN PLA MISMONG SINULAT NILA SA BIBLE DI NILA KAYANG SUNDIN EH EXCUSE ME FOR SAYING THIS ""BAKIT HINDI KAYANG BASAHIN NG MGA OBISPO OR ETC. ANG VERSE SA BIBLE NA NAGBABAWAL SUMAMBA SA REBULTO? DBA SULAT NILA YAN AT DAPAT LAHAT NG DEBOTO ALAM NILA YAN"" SILA NA MISMO ANG SUMUWAY SA UTOS NG DIYOS AT KUNG ANU PANG SINULAT NILA PAGBALIKTARIN NYO MAN PANSININ NINYO TO ALL CATHOLICS MEMBERS NA YUNG PRIEST NINYO ETC.MAY INIIWASAN SILANG VERSE NA AYAW NILANG BASAHIN SA LAHAT PROMISE BELIEVE ME ""IM NOT ANTI CHRIST BUT I WANT TO CORRECT THIS"" 

[ctan]

let me just remind everyone that this thread is not a bashing thread to other faith or beliefs. thanks!

[geo]

Naks... iboto si doc as next pgg moderator... hahaha

[Jon]

kahit anung religion mo, just respect kung anu ang paniniwala ng iba.

ako kahit saan basta isa lang ang dinadasalan ko. siya lang.

[mervs]

tulad ng yung sa sacrament of reconciliation...mangumpisal ka muna sa pari bago kay Lord...samantalang wala namang sinasabi sa Bible na ganun...nonsense din yung pangungumpisal sa pari kasi ganun din nangumpisal ka rin kay Lord..depende na lang kung nagkasala ka sa pari...hindi naman sigurong pwede sabihin ng isang tao na "ay hindi ako mapapatawad ni Lord kasi di pa ako nangumpisal sa pari"<--ibig sabihin nagddoubt ka sa forgiveness ni Lord? kahit sino naman pwedeng mapatawad ang isa't isa then through this mapapatawad ka na ni Lord...

Matthew 6:14-16
"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Parang sinasabi ng Katoliko na pari lang ang makakapag absolve ng sins? kung sinasabi nila na dahil may authority ang mga pari dahil nga daw kay Peter o sa apostolic tradition...well as far as i can remember sa Pentecost, binigay ang Holy Spirit sa kanila at sinabi ni Christ na "Whose sins you shall forgive,they are forgiven them: whose sins you shall retain, they are retained"....samantalang nandun mismo si Mary nung nangyare yun at natanggap din ang Holy Spirit...so how come apostles lang ang makakapag forgive ng sins? samantalang sinabi ni Christ yun sa kanilang lahat na naniniwala sa kanya na may Holy Spirit..gets? If some will say that because Mary is a lady and he doesn't have the authority like men then its fine because a lady as far as i know na hindi nila kailangang magpreach sa church...

"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says." 1 Corinthians 14:34

but forgiveness of sins is not a form of preaching...because preaching is something that teaches the Word of God...so its different

gets? nawawala yung essence nung Scripture...common sense lang naman ang ginamit ko
tapos sasabihin nila na yung Church lang ang makakpaginterpret ng Bible kasi hindi daw natin maiintindihan.....samantalang may mga Bible study at lahat kayang mainterpret ang Bible

"By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ" Ephesians 3:4

..so what's the point of having authority ng mga pari o Vatican sa paginterpret? well ok lang na may authority pero pag mali na ang tinuturo..susundin pa ba natin?...hindi ako natatakot na hindi sundin ang ibang utos ng Katoliko kundi natatakot ako kay Lord mismo..

isip isip din hehe

this is a very helpful video to enlighten you on the wonderful sacrament of reconciliation!:-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvo0OCcp600

[niceguy1111]

"Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you." John 20:21   this verse based on what I understood can also mean to all of us not just the apostles..as far as i know not all biblical passages are meant to be interpreted literally..

a contradiction to the video is when Jesus also said to His apostles, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." (John 20:22-23)

anyone can receive the Holy Spirit, not just the apostles, sa simpleng pagsorry nga lang sa isang tao it means na you are asking for forgiveness then in return mapapatawad ka, it's the same logic as to what Jesus said to his disciples then..ang pinagkaiba lang naman e sinabi Niya yun sa harap mismo ng mga apostles by that time.....but we are ALL called to be Christ's disciples, someone who believes in Him, who devote him/herself to prayers and to Word of God,...regarding with apostolic succession which is not biblical daw but rather a concept formed by Roman Catholic which became a tradition,..a tradition may be bad or good, but when it comes to relating it to Scriptures or religion, it must not contradict it...ayoko na magexplain mahaba na..o basta ang relation dun sa confession, agree or disagree with apostolic succession, as long as we have the Holy Spirit (which we can trust or ask his presence or guidance anytime) then we can forgive sins just like what the disciples did cause WE are all sent by Jesus in this earth to whom He can put trust to in order to proclaim His message and succeed in our mission for the sake of salvation. 

[mervs]

"Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you." John 20:21   this verse based on what I understood can also mean to all of us not just the apostles..as far as i know not all biblical passages are meant to be interpreted literally..

a contradiction to the video is when Jesus also said to His apostles, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." (John 20:22-23)

anyone can receive the Holy Spirit, not just the apostles, sa simpleng pagsorry nga lang sa isang tao it means na you are asking for forgiveness then in return mapapatawad ka, it's the same logic as to what Jesus said to his disciples then..ang pinagkaiba lang naman e sinabi Niya yun sa harap mismo ng mga apostles by that time.....but we are ALL called to be Christ's disciples, someone who believes in Him, who devote him/herself to prayers and to Word of God,...regarding with apostolic succession which is not biblical daw but rather a concept formed by Roman Catholic which became a tradition,..a tradition may be bad or good, but when it comes to relating it to Scriptures or religion, it must not contradict it...ayoko na magexplain mahaba na..o basta ang relation dun sa confession, agree or disagree with apostolic succession, as long as we have the Holy Spirit (which we can trust or ask his presence or guidance anytime) then we can forgive sins just like what the disciples did cause WE are all sent by Jesus in this earth to whom He can put trust to in order to proclaim His message and succeed in our mission for the sake of salvation.

hmm... good observation. this means that you are really seeking for God, for you are truly seeking truth, which is God Himself.

Phew, challenging ang questions mo, pero i will do my best to answer it.

First, yes, all of us are called to follow Christ,who are called Disciples. They are pupils of the Master. In our case, the Master is Jesus. Peter, James, John, matthew were, at first, disciples of the Lord. However, Jesus has a special plan for them,

mark 3: 13-19
"Jesus went up the mountain* and summoned those whom he wanted and they came to him. He appointed twelve [whom he also named apostles] that they might be with him* and he might send them forth to preach and to have authority to drive out demons: [he appointed the twelve:] Simon, whom he named Peter; James, son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James, whom he named Boanerges, that is, sons of thunder; Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus; Thaddeus, Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot who betrayed him."

From this Gospel Text, we can see that from Disciples, Jesus called the twelve to follow Him closely and share in His Messianic Mission, which is said in the Gospel of Luke 4: 18-19:

""The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,*
because he has anointed me
to bring glad tidings to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord."

from disciples, they have been called Apostles of Jesus. the word "apostle" comes from the Latin 'apostolus' which means, "someone who is sent." In the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper (luke 22:19) and of the Appearance of the Risen Christ to the Apostles (John 20:21-22), He ordains them to the special ministry of serving the Church by preaching the Gospel and celebrating His memory. of course, all the Baptized share in the Threefold Mission of Jesus (kingly, priestly and prophetic). This is called, "Common Priesthood."

Revelation 1:6
"Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead and ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us* from our sins by his blood,who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father, to him be glory and power forever [and ever]. Amen."

1 peter 2:9
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."


The Apostles, in turn, by the special anointing by Jesus, represent Him in the Church. This is the Ministerial Priesthood, in the same way that the Old Testament had priests to minister to the people.

Now, with the Sacrament of Reconciliation, of course, all of us can ask sorry to each other, and the Holy Spirit dwells in each of us. So why confess one's sins to a priest? Let us begin with the story of the ten lepers. Read on (Luke 17: 11-19)

As he continued his journey to Jerusalem,e he traveled through Samaria and Galilee.*
12
As he was entering a village, ten lepers met [him]. They stood at a distance from him
and raised their voice, saying, "Jesus, Master! Have pity on us!" And when he saw them, he said, "Go show yourselves to the priests."* As they were going they were cleansed. And one of them, realizing he had been healed, returned, glorifying God in a loud voice; and he fell at the feet of Jesus and thanked him. He was a Samaritan. Jesus said in reply, "Ten were cleansed, were they not? Where are the other nine? Has none but this foreigner returned to give thanks to God?" Then he said to him, "Stand up and go; your faith has saved you."

One may wonder, why does one need to go to the priest? One would think that it will be better to go to a doctor. It is because in Leviticus 14:2–9. When one has leprosy, it is the priest that determines it, declares him unclean and excludes him from the people. it  is the priest too who is responsible to assess someone if he is fit to rejoin the congregation. Leprosy too, in the ancient culture, is also seen as the 'curse of sin.' When we sin, we do not only offend God, but we also offend our brothers and sisters. By confessing our sins to the priest, he, not only forgives us in God's Name, but restores us in the name of the community, whom he represents.

Jesus, as the Messiah, has full power and authority in heaven and earth, which includes forgiveness of sins.

In the early Church, we see these traces:

Acts 19:18
"Many of those who had become believers came forward and openly acknowledged their former practices." - early believers went to the gathering of the believers, the Church, to admit their sins

James 5:16
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful."

1 John 1:9
"If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing."

the very authority of the Apostles to absolve sins is from what Jesus said in John 21:

"And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,m "Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." - the "breath" is called the 'ruah' in aramaic, which is the Breath of God, the Holy Spirit. This action recalls Gn 2:7, where God breathed on the first man and gave him life; just as Adam's life came from God, so now the disciples' new spiritual life comes from Jesus. Cf. also the revivification of the dry bones in Ez 37. This is the author's version of Pentecost.

Yes, God is merciful, and He is always forgiving. However, he establish the Sacrament of Reconciliation in order to reassure us, that we are forgiven, in His Name. it also moves us to be humble and to have faith, that even if priests are sinners like you and me, we rely on the promise of Jesus, that "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." (john 20:23), and his words "in the hope of eternal life that God, who does not lie" - Titus 1:2 and

Romans 3:3-4
"What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar,* as it is written:"That you may be justified in your words,
and conquer when you are judged."

pasensya na, sa aking abang nakayanan.

thank you for your patience. May the Holy Spirit help you to discover the Truth, which is Jesus.